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Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Sequel or Prequel?

Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Faerie Tanith » July 24th, 2017, 7:41 pm

I firmly believe Hoffman is dead, but since they spent so long building up his character and his storyline I'm going to be pissed and disappointed if they bypass all of that entirely. :/ I still hope for some new content involving Costas, even if it's 'flashback' footage of his death.
So far I have met:: Costas Mandylor, Tobin Bell, Julie Benz, J. LaRose, Darren Lynn Bousman, Michael Emerson
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby DetectiveChan » July 25th, 2017, 3:55 am

I think everything will be answered eventually. Anything is possible in the Saw universe. Just waiting is the worst part :(
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby ppaiem » July 25th, 2017, 6:57 am

Yeah I dont expect Cary Elwes to be in this one. I hoped for that one for six years and when they finally got him in 3D the wad was blown early.

As for Costas, maybe... but we had three films that focused on Hoffman. And I didn't find him to be THAT great of a character. Three films was overkill. So another one? Come on. Show him die if you must, but enough already. Youd be alienating everyone except hardest of hardcore Saw fans.
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Saw Warrior » July 31st, 2017, 2:02 am

I hope they show his corpse or at least mention him in a way.

Let's hope the bathroom comes back eventually, and it suddenly shows Hoffman's body missing, so we can keep talking about him for years, just like Gordon. :)
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby LukeG » July 31st, 2017, 12:26 pm

i hope we dont get another Gordon mystery for 6 years. Just show him dead or missing, or at least reveal him soon. i hope for another Jigsaw 1-8 lol but please dont drag out Hoffman for 6 more movies
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Vinc360 » July 31st, 2017, 4:44 pm

I hope we never, ever hear the names "Hoffman", "Amanda", or (especially) "Gordon".

Ever.

I'm done!
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby RealmOfLutherNiles » July 31st, 2017, 4:49 pm

I can understand why some fans don't like Hoffman or Gordon, but what do you have against Amanda?
"Ten faded places, that will fall prey to evil..."- The Whisperer
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Vinc360 » July 31st, 2017, 6:48 pm

This is going to turn into a wall of text, but basically I don't like the idea of people being "converted" to Jigsaw's ideology after being put in a death trap. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

I'm on board with the idea of a copycat who "agrees" with Jigsaw from afar, but being put in a death trap, feeling grateful to be alive and traumatized by the experience, then deciding to waste that life by helping the killer who put you in that trap is a goofy / ridiculous idea.

Amanda's character motivation was that she was addicted to killing, and replaced her drug use with murder. That's... fine. It's pretty ridiculous to me, but I can accept it. I'm just ready to move on from that now.

Hoffman's character was blackmailed but also seemed to agree with Jigsaw and has absolutely zero believable motivation to continue the "games" after John's death. His character was botched in every conceivable way and was a huge mistep for the franchise. And the character was such a downgrade of epic proportions from Tobin Bell's that it's not even funny. Not only was the character poorly written, but Costas' performance, to me, was just nowhere near as compelling as Bell's. They should stay as far away from that character as possible.

Gordon being involved... is just pure nonsensical garbage. His character was compelling and believable in 1... despite a pretty shockingly poor performance. Then he somehow managed to have a much worse performance in 3D, with a completely unbelievably changed personality, zero character motivation (not even an attempt at rationalizing his actions)... his involvement was the definition of having a twist for the sake of a twist. And it was a predictable one at that, since pressure from fans (who clearly didn't think things through) became pretty big. In terms of storytelling, they had just given up at that point. Saw 3D is the worst Saw movie by a landslide, but Gordon's involvement was the laughable cherry on top.

So yeah, needless to say that I'm pretty damn over the idea of apprentices being "converted" to Jigsaw's ways.

Jigsaw is a twisted individual whose motivations only really work at a metaphorical level. The idea that anyone can be converted to his ways is completely ridiculous to me, to a laughable degree. Considering how self-serious this franchise can be, I don't think they can afford having that. But then again, they'll have to be pretty creative, considering Jigsaw has been dead for 5 movies now. I like the idea of a copycat, but if he/she's revealed to have been converted by Jigsaw in the past, I'll be out, and probably won't even watch any future installments.
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Saw Warrior » July 31st, 2017, 7:48 pm

I guess they wanted to hint that Hoffman was pretty much a cold guy that loved to see people dying and suffering.

Jigsaw was 100% aware of that, as he left the tape to be found during his autopsy. He knew Hoffman pretty well. He knew Hoffman would go as far as he went.

Jigsaw wanted Hoffman to be tested in Saw 6, but he also knew there was a chance Jill would try something else to kill Hoffman. So, Jigsaw also predicted there was a chance Hoffman could survive and go after Jill, which is the reason he told Jill to give the envelope to Gordon, where it was said that Hoffman had to be locked after he killed Jill.

Hoffman kept Jigsaw's games after his death, because at that point, he pretty much had turned into something else. I mean, you're working with Jigsaw, you can't be normal or a fine person.
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby RealmOfLutherNiles » July 31st, 2017, 8:02 pm

Hoffman continued the games because he was blackmailed. The anonymous "I know who you are"-letter made it pretty clear to him that his secret wasn't safe just because John was dead. His dialogue in Saw VI where he got the envelopes from Jill made it quite clear that he was eager to finally bring the games to an end, even though he had turned into a sociopathic sadist and enjoyed the suffering of his victims.
"Ten faded places, that will fall prey to evil..."- The Whisperer
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