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Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Sequel or Prequel?

Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Saw Warrior » July 31st, 2017, 8:19 pm

I never understood exactly what happened between Jill and Hoffman during Saw 6.

I mean, did Jigsaw tell him that Jill was aware of the games? When Hoffman visited Jill at her clinic, he was already aware of the envelopes. How did he know it?

Why wouldn't he think Jill sent the "I know who you are" letter? By the way, he says that after William's game is over, he won't be talking to Jill anymore. So, why would he say that? Who's to say Jill will keep her mouth shut?

Why wouldn't he kill her already?
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Journey95 » August 1st, 2017, 9:45 pm

Hoffman was the best part of the last few movies so I hope they don't ignore him but I think they will ignore most of the original franchise. This seems to be a soft reboot and made accessible for the GA.

I doubt anyone but Jigsaw is mentioned and all the different plots won't be referenced either.
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Journey95 » August 1st, 2017, 9:47 pm

ppaiem wrote:Yeah I dont expect Cary Elwes to be in this one. I hoped for that one for six years and when they finally got him in 3D the wad was blown early.

As for Costas, maybe... but we had three films that focused on Hoffman. And I didn't find him to be THAT great of a character. Three films was overkill. So another one? Come on. Show him die if you must, but enough already. Youd be alienating everyone except hardest of hardcore Saw fans.


Most people aren't saying that he should return but just ignoring his story would be stupid.
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Journey95 » August 1st, 2017, 9:54 pm

Vinc360 wrote:This is going to turn into a wall of text, but basically I don't like the idea of people being "converted" to Jigsaw's ideology after being put in a death trap. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

I'm on board with the idea of a copycat who "agrees" with Jigsaw from afar, but being put in a death trap, feeling grateful to be alive and traumatized by the experience, then deciding to waste that life by helping the killer who put you in that trap is a goofy / ridiculous idea.

Amanda's character motivation was that she was addicted to killing, and replaced her drug use with murder. That's... fine. It's pretty ridiculous to me, but I can accept it. I'm just ready to move on from that now.

Hoffman's character was blackmailed but also seemed to agree with Jigsaw and has absolutely zero believable motivation to continue the "games" after John's death. His character was botched in every conceivable way and was a huge mistep for the franchise. And the character was such a downgrade of epic proportions from Tobin Bell's that it's not even funny. Not only was the character poorly written, but Costas' performance, to me, was just nowhere near as compelling as Bell's. They should stay as far away from that character as possible.

Gordon being involved... is just pure nonsensical garbage. His character was compelling and believable in 1... despite a pretty shockingly poor performance. Then he somehow managed to have a much worse performance in 3D, with a completely unbelievably changed personality, zero character motivation (not even an attempt at rationalizing his actions)... his involvement was the definition of having a twist for the sake of a twist. And it was a predictable one at that, since pressure from fans (who clearly didn't think things through) became pretty big. In terms of storytelling, they had just given up at that point. Saw 3D is the worst Saw movie by a landslide, but Gordon's involvement was the laughable cherry on top.

So yeah, needless to say that I'm pretty damn over the idea of apprentices being "converted" to Jigsaw's ways.

Jigsaw is a twisted individual whose motivations only really work at a metaphorical level. The idea that anyone can be converted to his ways is completely ridiculous to me, to a laughable degree. Considering how self-serious this franchise can be, I don't think they can afford having that. But then again, they'll have to be pretty creative, considering Jigsaw has been dead for 5 movies now. I like the idea of a copycat, but if he/she's revealed to have been converted by Jigsaw in the past, I'll be out, and probably won't even watch any future installments.



Only agree on the Gordon part but the rest is bs. Amanda was unstable and I don't think its farfetched that she was manipulated easily and joined Jigsaw. She never healed and just replaced one addiction with another, like you said. Nothing ridiculous about it.

Hoffman was already crazy before he even met Kramer and used the latter's methods to get revenge. Makes sense why he would join him..and as it was later revealed he just liked seeing the victims suffer. Thats why he continued. Not a misstep at all.

And Hoffman was never supposed to be Jigsaw 2.0, he is just a apprentice, why would you compare him with Kramer and Bell's performance (such a high standard)?

Amanda and Hoffman were both great characters who added a lot to the series. The apprentice idea was great, you can't just have the same shit in every movie. You underestimate how much people can be influenced and change.

Not wanting to hear their names again is silly, this franchise always had great continuity. If they abandon that it would suck.
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Re: Why are the detectives ignoring Hoffman's plot???

Postby Vinc360 » August 2nd, 2017, 1:21 pm

I'll respectfully disagree with everything you just said. I do think Amanda is at the limit of believability, and Hoffman was never a well-developed character. His character traits are in constant conflict with each other, and the movies didn't do a great job at explaining what makes him tick in a believable way. I enjoyed him a lot in Saw VI, but it doesn't go any further for me.

But beyond all that, I just don't think they're very compelling characters. And I don't want them to be mentioned again because I'd like for said continuity to be reset. Having to watch 7 movies before seeing the new one is becoming a daunting task for people.
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