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Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Sequel or Prequel?

Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby freespirit777 » July 25th, 2017, 5:39 am

Growing up, I basically worshipped the Saw films.. I loved every sequel and was heavily biased and in favor of each sequel being the best..

Now that I'm much older and have distanced myself from the movies for quite a while, I realize that the series really could've been a WHOLE lot better..

Most people would choose the first film as the best, and that's because it is the most simplistic; it's a true character study film with interesting character dynamics where they are also given the chance to develop throughout the film.. adding the mystery/detective aspect makes it all the more intriguing.

I also realized that the writers had FULL creative control with the first Saw..

it seems that with each passing sequel, the stories became so convoluted with unappealing characters, too many characters and their development was spread to thinly because of this, as well as too much arbitrary focus on violence and traps..

it's like the studios began controlling and restricting the writers to anything that wouldn't appeal to the casual mindless moviegoer.. violence sells unfortunately, and having too much character depth and substance would turn people away, so the studios thought..

The sequels definitely have some intriguing character moments, but I feel they could have definitely been sooo much better, had they gone with the same approach as the original; focus on the character-study aspect, keep it simple, don't try to make it a horror movie etc..

They just became pretty watered down, and lost there depth/substance that was present in the first one.

The first film was an actual CREATIVE and ARTISTIC release from honest artists, not some quick cash grab by some big studios... the film was supposed to be released straight to dvd, and so it wasn't about money in the way the sequels were; it was a sincere love for creating a well thought out film with depth and substance.

This also brought to mind the Rob Zombie Halloween films.. where Rob originally envisioned his 'remake' to be spread out over two movies, to have time for character development; the first film would be MIchael's childhood, and the second one would begin with Michael being older..

The studio decided against this, so he was forced to condense his two-film story into one 100-ish minute film, thus seriously hindering the final creation..

If the studio allowed him to make the two movies HE wanted, HIS artistic creative vision, then it would have been such a better film.

The studio reportedly gave him more creative control with the sequel, and look how much better it was.. so much character focus and breathing room!

That's exactly what happened with Saw 3D; a much better film would've been made and spread out over two films.. instead it was condensed with twice the traps and half the story... the greedy tyrants ruined their vision.

It's not about art, it's about money which is so wrong.

This happens all the time probably, greedy corporate studios ruin the creative vision of honest artists, because they want to sacrifice creativity for money.

I'm sure this has been discussed by now, just wanted to see thoughts on this : )
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby DetectiveChan » July 25th, 2017, 5:57 am

Personally I thought all the films were really good. Saw 1 will always be the best but from Saw 1-5 were great in my eyes. 6 and 7 could have been a lot better. I didn't care for the characters in those last films. I wish James wan would have stuck with the series and made it into his full vision!
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby ppaiem » July 25th, 2017, 6:35 am

DetectiveChan wrote:Personally I thought all the films were really good. Saw 1 will always be the best but from Saw 1-5 were great in my eyes. 6 and 7 could have been a lot better. I didn't care for the characters in those last films. I wish James wan would have stuck with the series and made it into his full vision!


Saw I was James Wan's full vision. Thats why he moved on.

Liked 6 a lot. 3D is one of the most frustrating experiences Ive had as a fan.
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby Faerie Tanith » July 25th, 2017, 7:23 am

I always thought movies 1-6 were amazing. 7 was the weakest; it still worked, but barely just and I thought it was wise to end the franchise there before it got ridiculous.

Now, with Jigsaw on the way... I agree it's too much. I can only reassure myself with the knowledge that, if it's bad, I can separate it from the Saw franchise in my mind.
So far I have met:: Costas Mandylor, Tobin Bell, Julie Benz, J. LaRose, Darren Lynn Bousman, Michael Emerson
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby Vinc360 » July 25th, 2017, 1:13 pm

Well, you're not wrong in anything you said in that post, except that Saw is actually still independently owned by Mark Burg and Oren Koules. They do what they want with the franchise, so you need to convince them and show them what you want from a Saw movie, not the rest of Hollywood or a studio. Lionsgate does have the distributing rights, marketing rights, and the right to compel production of the movies against Mark and Oren's wishes (though this hasn't happened, I'm pretty sure Mark and Oren are always up for making one of these, provided they have an idea for one) but only up to the next one, Saw 9, after that, Mark and Oren are free to do whatever they please (which would probably be signing an extension with Lionsgate, but still, lol.)
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby evanmav » July 25th, 2017, 3:27 pm

The studios definitely were trying hard to push their own agenda on the SAW films. It's disappointing because at times I do think it affected the quality. There were things like Saw 4-7 couldn't be longer than 90 minutes long and other things. Also I remember Kevin saying that they wanted to cut SAW VI off right at the point where William kicks through the door, and then the rest would continue in SAW VII. I don't think that the writers/directors had full control of their vision of the films for SAW IV-VII like they did with the first 3 SAW's. I fear that the same thing will most likely be happening with JIGSAW.
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby freespirit777 » July 25th, 2017, 5:54 pm

Vinc360 wrote:Well, you're not wrong in anything you said in that post, except that Saw is actually still independently owned by Mark Burg and Oren Koules. They do what they want with the franchise, so you need to convince them and show them what you want from a Saw movie, not the rest of Hollywood or a studio. Lionsgate does have the distributing rights, marketing rights, and the right to compel production of the movies against Mark and Oren's wishes (though this hasn't happened, I'm pretty sure Mark and Oren are always up for making one of these, provided they have an idea for one) but only up to the next one, Saw 9, after that, Mark and Oren are free to do whatever they please (which would probably be signing an extension with Lionsgate, but still, lol.)


@vinc360 oh I did not know that; then that shows that they care more about financial revenue, rather than making a creative and artistic statement.. making one film a year for 7 years is probably proof of that in one way or another. ugh.
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby freespirit777 » July 25th, 2017, 5:57 pm

evanmav wrote:The studios definitely were trying hard to push their own agenda on the SAW films. It's disappointing because at times I do think it affected the quality. There were things like Saw 4-7 couldn't be longer than 90 minutes long and other things. Also I remember Kevin saying that they wanted to cut SAW VI off right at the point where William kicks through the door, and then the rest would continue in SAW VII. I don't think that the writers/directors had full control of their vision of the films for SAW IV-VII like they did with the first 3 SAW's. I fear that the same thing will most likely be happening with JIGSAW.


@evanmav yeah, I've been completely removed from the Saw series since 3d came out in 2010, the series had such potential, though it has it's bright moments in the sequels... hopefully Jigsaw is more character/story driven rather than just trying to make something trendy or 'with the times'.
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby Vinc360 » July 25th, 2017, 6:02 pm

freespirit777 wrote:
Vinc360 wrote:Well, you're not wrong in anything you said in that post, except that Saw is actually still independently owned by Mark Burg and Oren Koules. They do what they want with the franchise, so you need to convince them and show them what you want from a Saw movie, not the rest of Hollywood or a studio. Lionsgate does have the distributing rights, marketing rights, and the right to compel production of the movies against Mark and Oren's wishes (though this hasn't happened, I'm pretty sure Mark and Oren are always up for making one of these, provided they have an idea for one) but only up to the next one, Saw 9, after that, Mark and Oren are free to do whatever they please (which would probably be signing an extension with Lionsgate, but still, lol.)


@vinc360 oh I did not know that; then that shows that they care more about financial revenue, rather than making a creative and artistic statement.. making one film a year for 7 years is probably proof of that in one way or another. ugh.



Hmm... well that's one way to look at it, but the truth is that while it's certainly a big money-maker, and Twisted Pictures is obviously not a charity, so of course they are driven by profit, they do certainly enjoy making these films, and care about doing what's best for the franchise's continued viability, as they do enjoy making them and making a living out of making them. Basically, they like their job, but it's a job. I think a lot of us would stop going into work if it didn't pay, even though we may enjoy our jobs!

Whether what they think is best for the franchise's continued viability lines up with my personal interests is another story, but I'm just a fan... a customer, in other words.
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Re: Hollywood RUINED Saw Series...

Postby freespirit777 » July 26th, 2017, 12:58 am

Vinc360 wrote:
freespirit777 wrote:
Vinc360 wrote:Well, you're not wrong in anything you said in that post, except that Saw is actually still independently owned by Mark Burg and Oren Koules. They do what they want with the franchise, so you need to convince them and show them what you want from a Saw movie, not the rest of Hollywood or a studio. Lionsgate does have the distributing rights, marketing rights, and the right to compel production of the movies against Mark and Oren's wishes (though this hasn't happened, I'm pretty sure Mark and Oren are always up for making one of these, provided they have an idea for one) but only up to the next one, Saw 9, after that, Mark and Oren are free to do whatever they please (which would probably be signing an extension with Lionsgate, but still, lol.)


@vinc360 oh I did not know that; then that shows that they care more about financial revenue, rather than making a creative and artistic statement.. making one film a year for 7 years is probably proof of that in one way or another. ugh.



Hmm... well that's one way to look at it, but the truth is that while it's certainly a big money-maker, and Twisted Pictures is obviously not a charity, so of course they are driven by profit, they do certainly enjoy making these films, and care about doing what's best for the franchise's continued viability, as they do enjoy making them and making a living out of making them. Basically, they like their job, but it's a job. I think a lot of us would stop going into work if it didn't pay, even though we may enjoy our jobs!

Whether what they think is best for the franchise's continued viability lines up with my personal interests is another story, but I'm just a fan... a customer, in other words.


At the end of the day, it seems they care about making money over a true artistic vision that's honest and not motivated by money..

if I were them, I would make a deep character driven drama with substance, sorta like the first one but more drawn out and like well over 2 hours long; just one interesting character study..

Making less money? Yes, but that's worth it in turn for creating something sincerely and passionately... greed definitely played a part in the series I feel
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