Hello Guest! Click here to get your FREE Member Account.

James Wan and Saw

Sequel or Prequel?

James Wan and Saw

Postby kramersson » November 1st, 2017, 4:31 pm

I don't know how to start this topic but I just want to take this opportunity and this active forum to talk about James Wan for a sec. Throughout several past interviews that we have read about, it was made evident that James didn't want to be recognized as the "Saw" guy. Let that sink in for a bit. Now think about it again - what's wrong with being a "Saw" guy in the first place?! By making Saw and bringing forth his ideas to the Silverscreen (along with Leigh Leigh Whannell, obviously some credit goes to him too), he has created one of the most iconic characters and gave rise to the most loyal fan base of the horror genre of all time. What is there not to like about that and why does he have to walk away from it? If it's about money, come on man, he can seriously milk the shit out of this franchise if he wanted to through movies, merchandises, home media, etc. So it's probably not about money. If it's about fame, look man, he made Saw but Saw made a bigger him! A much bigger him! I'm not saying his other works are not good, of course they are, but only thanks to Saw that he was able to make all these materialize!

So what does this have to do with Jigsaw 2017? The point here is that the producers in charge have completely ruined the franchise with the latest installment (and some of the prior ones, namely Saw 3D). James' original idea was amazing, they looked realistic and believable, and all of this was because the formula was simple and was based on character development! As Kramer would put it - those original movies would without a doubt withstand the test of time. In comes the new movies and the sets just look too over the top. They are ridiculous because you would literally need a team of highly skilled prop-masters to pull it off. And seriously they are marketing the original buckethead games as one of the first games that Kramer pulled off? Come on man, we're educated viewers. Very educated. How the hell can Kramer pull all that shit off in his early days as Jigsaw ALONE? Want to dispute and say he did have a team of guys working for him since the beginning? Fine, but that makes it even MORE ridiculous because that means every movie from now on will be a backstory of a new apprentice after a new apprentice after a new apprentice. Quoting Kramer again - WAKE UP!

Do not misunderstand me. I fucking love Saw, I love it with all my heart and I even listen to Zepp every morning as I commute to work everyday. I love the twists, I love the returning characters, I love the continuity, I love Kramer. But now it's a mess.

So I ask you James Wan - why are you completely OK seeing your child turn into something like this? Why won't you save it? Why won't you pitch in some new idea and take control of the script? Seriously, no more Disneyland-sized traps, no more apprentices, no more fucking around with movie titles. By the way, I FUCKING HATED IT when they decided to name Saw VII as Saw 3D and broke the continuity of the naming. I'm a huge collector of movies and breaking it like that simply for the sake of ripping off new viewers and luring them into thinking it may be a reboot with 3D element is a criminal act and a big slap in the face to us fans. Now you have the new name Jigsaw, the next movie will be called what? Jigsaw II? Or back to Saw IX? They messed it up real good this time.

Bottom-line is, I really hope James Wan gets to see this someday. It's not too late to come back. We love you, we want your twisted mind to own this franchise once again. Whatever it takes, pls come back, and bring Leigh with you.

Final point - what's with the laziness of Lionsgate in NOT releasing any sort of special edition blu rays as a collector's set? I've been waiting for that for years, and honestly as a franchise that has won the Guinness World Record for the most successful horror film franchise, I think fans deserve to have something good to display on their shelves for it. It's our right. Take our goddamn money, we don't even care. All we really care about is moving this franchise back in the correct direction. Maybe talk to Ridley Scott - he came back and has done a pretty good job with making the Alien franchise legit again. That's really all we want.
User avatar
kramersson
Fresh Meat

Rank experience:
42%
 
The Topic Starter
Posts: 42
Points: 142.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby PacnyTuH0 » November 1st, 2017, 5:01 pm

I agree with you 100%. But I think once Lionsgate or Twisted pictures got hold of the franchise Leigh and James were done with it. In the end money talks. And big money doesn't come from the hardcore fans. They had to attract new viewers and so on.

And on top of that maintaining a good storyline with clever ideas is extremely hard. Definitely not as easy as we would like to. And also very hard to come up with twists that will blow your mind. At least for me, I am suspicious of every word in the movie nowadays. I always look for clues for what may happen. It's just that the SAW movies made me like this, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

One think I picked up from the latest interview of Burg, Koules, and Tobin was that right after each movie, Lionsgate/Twisted told them to make a new one for next year. So each time, they had less than a year to come up with a script, find actors, and film the movie. So you can imagine that they had very little time to come up with an original script before the actual shooting started.

So all in all quite a few factors why the franchise got worse with every other movie (besides Saw 6)
User avatar
PacnyTuH0
Fresh Meat

Rank experience:
23%
 
Posts: 23
Points: 96.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby manyofhorror » November 1st, 2017, 5:30 pm

Not to sound pretentious, and I love the saw series with all my heart, but its a similar thing to actors being typecast, I often compare it to David Tennent leaving Dr Who after 3 years because he wanted to do other roles instead of being known for one thing. James and Leigh wanted to do bigger and better things and expand their careers and they couldnt do that sticking with 1 series, especially when Lionsgate wanted 1 movie a year.

As for the rumour of them coming back for Jigsaw all those years ago, the series had an aura around that time for being just torture porn (and lets be real, it was, but more styish and care than most torture porn movie), why would James ever come back to a series with such a negative reputation after doing the Conjuring, F&F7 and ready to get started on Aquaman? Besides, sequels of James' original ideas are not new to him anymore, the conjuring has a goddamn universe now and insidious is about to go for a 4th round (then again Leigh is still on that, so I guess hes more attached to indsidious than he was with saw).

The best chance of James and Leigh coming back will be the franchise will be a complete reboot, a fresh start, no over-complicated story attached to it and freedom to do what they want. But while this generation of Saw still makes money, that will likely be a long time.
User avatar
manyofhorror
Fresh Meat

Rank experience:
89%
 
Posts: 89
Points: 235.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby Vinc360 » November 1st, 2017, 5:51 pm

James and Leigh were essentially done after II, but came back after Gregg Hoffman died for one last hurrah. They are on record saying the franchise went steeply downhill after that. I think the one way they could come back is if they had a chance to reinvent it entirely, assuming they'd have an idea they're passionate about. They're too smart to come back for any other reason, so it's unlikely we'll ever see them come back.
User avatar
Vinc360
Victim

Rank experience:
92%
 
Posts: 284
Points: 630.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby kramersson » November 1st, 2017, 6:07 pm

You know, on the idea of reinventing, they (not limited to James and Leigh now but anyone who can have a say on the script) can seriously just look towards the fans for ideas and insight. Over the years, from HOJ to here, we have had people come and go, but one thing that stayed is the endless amount of creativity that we fans have for the story and how it can proceed or start anew. Sometimes reading these posts from you fine people gives me the adrenaline and hoping that one day it could materialize on-screen. I guarantee you, if there was a contest from the producers on obtaining the best script for the next movie, they would find the winners here and they would have a hard time deciding on just one. All they really have to do is listen to us. They have to start to understand that the traps mean nothing if it has no significance to the story. The reverse bear trap has been in almost every movie now and that's just a single piece of device, but it carries such important significance that even non-Saw fans know what that is now. This tells you something about simplicity and why we need to desperately put that back into the films as the core.
User avatar
kramersson
Fresh Meat

Rank experience:
42%
 
The Topic Starter
Posts: 42
Points: 142.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby manyofhorror » November 1st, 2017, 6:12 pm

kramersson wrote:You know, on the idea of reinventing, they (not limited to James and Leigh now but anyone who can have a say on the script) can seriously just look towards the fans for ideas and insight.


I like your thinking, but wouldnt that make the plot predictable to at least this sector of the fanbase, and was also why the Dr Gordon twist was disappointing because its almost as if its taken from a HOJ post?
Last edited by manyofhorror on November 1st, 2017, 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
manyofhorror
Fresh Meat

Rank experience:
89%
 
Posts: 89
Points: 235.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby Saw Warrior » November 1st, 2017, 6:28 pm

Saw 3D is what happens when writters cater to the fanbase.

Everything that happened in Saw 3D, had already been predicted by fans ( who have discussed that stuff since the end of rhe first movie ).

Saw 3D had no twist, only revelations ( and pretty obvious ones ).

That being said, I loved the new Jigsaw movie. It clearly was its own thing and ignored most of the events from previous movies, without contradicting them. Yeah yeah, I read your essay about how many apprentices do John have, but that's when I have to stop and say it's a movie.

Let's hope we get JIIgsaw and JIIIgsaw and we'll get more development. I liked what I watched, and it's easily better than most of the previous sequels.

Besides, Jigsaw is the best reviewed Saw movie after the first one, on Rotten Tomatoes. The audience score is also insanely high ( how is that possible? ). So, they did something right.
User avatar
Saw Warrior
SAW Newbie

Rank experience:
25.5%
 
Posts: 351
Points: 795.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby Themovieman » November 1st, 2017, 6:45 pm

Saw Warrior wrote:Saw 3D is what happens when writters cater to the fanbase.

Everything that happened in Saw 3D, had already been predicted by fans ( who have discussed that stuff since the end of rhe first movie ).

Saw 3D had no twist, only revelations ( and pretty obvious ones ).

That being said, I loved the new Jigsaw movie. It clearly was its own thing and ignored most of the events from previous movies, without contradicting them. Yeah yeah, I read your essay about how many apprentices do John have, but that's when I have to stop and say it's a movie.

Let's hope we get JIIgsaw and JIIIgsaw and we'll get more development. I liked what I watched, and it's easily better than most of the previous sequels.

Besides, Jigsaw is the best reviewed Saw movie after the first one, on Rotten Tomatoes. The audience score is also insanely high ( how is that possible? ). So, they did something right.


Does this mean we can expect another movie?
User avatar
Themovieman
Fresh Meat

Rank experience:
59%
 
1 year of membership
 
Posts: 59
Points: 186.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby Saw Warrior » November 1st, 2017, 7:41 pm

Themovieman wrote:
Saw Warrior wrote:Saw 3D is what happens when writters cater to the fanbase.

Everything that happened in Saw 3D, had already been predicted by fans ( who have discussed that stuff since the end of rhe first movie ).

Saw 3D had no twist, only revelations ( and pretty obvious ones ).

That being said, I loved the new Jigsaw movie. It clearly was its own thing and ignored most of the events from previous movies, without contradicting them. Yeah yeah, I read your essay about how many apprentices do John have, but that's when I have to stop and say it's a movie.

Let's hope we get JIIgsaw and JIIIgsaw and we'll get more development. I liked what I watched, and it's easily better than most of the previous sequels.

Besides, Jigsaw is the best reviewed Saw movie after the first one, on Rotten Tomatoes. The audience score is also insanely high ( how is that possible? ). So, they did something right.


Does this mean we can expect another movie?



I hope so. At least one more. :)
User avatar
Saw Warrior
SAW Newbie

Rank experience:
25.5%
 
Posts: 351
Points: 795.00
Gender: None specified

Re: James Wan and Saw

Postby LukeG » November 1st, 2017, 8:02 pm

I wish this one was a box office monster. Rendering 5 more sequels but looks like we will be lucky for 1 more
You think it's the living who have ultimate judgment over you, because the dead will have no claim over your soul. But you may be mistaken
User avatar
LukeG
Victim

Rank experience:
15%
 
Posts: 130
Points: 374.00
Gender: None specified

Next

Return to SAW: Legacy (Jigsaw)



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Albert-Wesker, IKnowWhoYouAre, saw in china, Slasherfan, YasserSaw and 14 guests

cron