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Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Sequel or Prequel?

Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Dagenspear » June 11th, 2018, 1:09 pm

thatswest wrote:Amanda never mentioned Hoffman in Saw III
That did fit in the context of their situations though. Trapped in a house and with a hostage. For Hoffman's paranoia, it doesn't make sense for him to be so sure that John and Amanda dying would release him or that he wouldn't track Logan down and get rid of him.
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Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Faerie Tanith » July 30th, 2018, 1:21 pm

Dagenspear wrote:
thatswest wrote:Amanda never mentioned Hoffman in Saw III
That did fit in the context of their situations though. Trapped in a house and with a hostage. For Hoffman's paranoia, it doesn't make sense for him to be so sure that John and Amanda dying would release him or that he wouldn't track Logan down and get rid of him.

This. Hoffman was very thorough in getting rid of any 'evidence', aka killing anyone who was a risk to his anonymity. Hence Lawrence's big reveal took him by surprise. Logan being pulled in out of the blue doesn't make sense.
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Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Saw Warrior » July 30th, 2018, 5:50 pm

It's funny that Josh can't confirm if Saw 9 is happening, but then he comes and says Amanda and Hoffman both knew Logan.

This is a huge detail that I would have liked to see by myself in Saw 9. Not that I'm complaining about spoilers, but it seems he already has a story developed to get a go.

Jigsaw II or Saw 9 or whatever it's gonna be called...Well, the next movie will have to travel back to the entire Saw universe in order to explain what Logan did during the first 7 movies and/or where he was during all that time.

It's probably going to be something similar to Saw 5, which spent a lot of time retelling events from previous movies, to the point of using stock footage to tell us that what we thought it had happened, actualy happened with new events around it...

Remember Paul from Saw 1? Yeah, in Saw 5 we did learn that Hoffman helped Jigsaw with Paul and his trap

Remember Dr Gordon's pen from Saw 1? Yeah, it's revealed that Jigsaw asked Hoffman to put that pen to be found by the cops during a crime scene ( So we can assume Mark's trap was so batshit crazy because maybe it was Hoffman who did it, and not Jigsaw )

In Saw 2, it's revealed that Obi helped Jigsaw to get the other victims to play the house game. It's revealed that Amanda was helping Jigsaw. In Saw 5, it's revealed that Hoffman helped Jigsaw with that game

The secret door in Saw 3 ( that it wasn't a secret passage until Saw 5 ) was hilarious. At first we had to assume Amanda never knew about Hoffman ( which is why he used the secret passage to leave before she got Lynn to play the events in Saw 3 ). Then Saw 6 quite denies that, revealing that both Amanda and Hoffman knew each other and hated each other.

Point is, Saw 5 was a filler movie that literally had to stop its tiny plot in order to put Hoffman in all the past events and explain how he was involved.

Logan is now at the same point. We know he worked with Jigsaw even before the events of the first movie.
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Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Faerie Tanith » July 30th, 2018, 9:49 pm

My feelings though is that they already reached by pulling off that amount of retcon before, doing it all over again with Logan feels like pushing it.
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Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Saw Warrior » July 30th, 2018, 10:41 pm

Yeah, Josh and Pete really wrote themselves into a corner with the Logan twist.

Perhaps this is why it's taking so long to reveal a new Saw movie. They're thinking about all these things I've listed.

The best thing they could do, is telling that before the events of the first movie, both Jigsaw and Logan did break up their relationship ( maybe Jigsaw warned about Logan having a family, something that Hoffman and Amanda didn't ), and Logan simply went to another place and moved on with his life.

Perhaps Logan actually made a lot of solo games by himself ( after learning with Jigsaw ) somewhere. After Jigsaw died, then Logan returned to live where he lived in the past.

Hoffman and Amanda knowing about Logan would be a mistake, unless Jigsaw only talked about having tested people before and then said he tested a dude called Logan. So, in a way they know about Logan as just another victim, but they never knew about his previous relationship with Jigsaw.

Josh's post was ambiguous in that regard, so I'll give him that. I just don't want another Saw 5.
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Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Jigsaw_Expert » July 31st, 2018, 5:11 pm

Saw Warrior wrote:It's funny that Josh can't confirm if Saw 9 is happening, but then he comes and says Amanda and Hoffman both knew Logan.

While I hope they don't drudge up Costas and Shawnee for more sleep inducing flashbacks, I wonder if he just said this to be nice. In Jigsaw they were trying to keep the lore separate from the original movies, it seems as if they don't want to open up the convoluted mess of the original series and allow it to spill into their new continuity but they keep telling us the original movies totally happened. I get the sense Stolberg is just too nice and worried about enraging rabid fans to flat out say "we haven't really considered how Logan slots in with Amanda / Hoffman / Doctor G because in our new continuity he's the only apprentice". Ofcourse I could totally be wrong and they might start namedropping Doctor G, Hoffman and Amanda all over the place in the next sequel, but it seems as if they're unsure. Kept everything vague in Jigsaw so they could start tying in those elements in the sequel if they decide it would be a good idea. In any case Eleanor's hacksaw suggests we'll get concrete confirmation in the sequel with the inevitable flashback where she retrieves it from the bathroom. Will we get a final Hoffman scene where Eleanor converses with him as he's half starving to death before she leaves, will she rescue him or will he already be a rotting corpse?

Saw Warrior wrote:Jigsaw II or Saw 9 or whatever it's gonna be called...Well, the next movie will have to travel back to the entire Saw universe in order to explain what Logan did during the first 7 movies and/or where he was during all that time.

Big concern of mine, that it'll be a repeat of V with 50% of the movie being sluggish flashbacks where Kramer and Logan are in a flat boring room talking with John "I'm not a murderer but slashed Danny Glover's throat" Kramer lecturing about his philosophy as if it has any integrity whatsoever. I hope they keep these flashbacks as concise and as few in number as possible. How many flashbacks do we really need of Kramer / Logan talking in a flat boring room to get a feel for their relationship? Most of the flashbacks throughout the series only exist because these movies have a paper thin story, solely to pad out the running time. Something like the shotgun chair scene in V was vital and offered great info on how Hoffman got started, but we didn't need Hoffman kidnapping Paul, watching Paul's trap, setting up the nerve gas house or speaking to John in the sick room. These scenes existed because V's story is paper thin and they need to pad out the running time as much as possible. They ofcourse also served as fan service just so we could clap and say "I recognize those characters, I know who that is" (huge problem with this fanbase). Same applies to VI and I'm still baffled by the amount of positive praise VI gets.

The easiest way to explain Logan's backstory IMO would be he helped Jigsaw with the murders for a while and quit the legacy when he got married / had a child, deciding to focus on his family life. Would immediately explain his absence throughout the original series for fans who care to try and force this into the lore of the original series. Then the death of his wife was obviously the spark that triggered him to start the murders again.

Saw Warrior wrote:The secret door in Saw 3 ( that it wasn't a secret passage until Saw 5 ) was hilarious. At first we had to assume Amanda never knew about Hoffman ( which is why he used the secret passage to leave before she got Lynn to play the events in Saw 3 ). Then Saw 6 quite denies that, revealing that both Amanda and Hoffman knew each other and hated each other.

It's good fun to pick at the numerous holes in this series, but I would defend this. V left it ambiguous as to whether or not Hoffman / Amanda knew of each other's involvement. Hoffman leaving through that passageway was to keep his anonymity in case Lynn survived or she would be able to identify him.
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Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Saw Warrior » August 16th, 2018, 3:05 am

I'm also curious about why did Logan record Halloran's confession about his crimes...

I mean, what's the point of that, now that Halloran is dead?
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Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Jigsaw_Expert » August 16th, 2018, 4:48 pm

Saw Warrior wrote:I'm also curious about why did Logan record Halloran's confession about his crimes...

I mean, what's the point of that, now that Halloran is dead?

Despite the fact Eleanor will be bringing the authorities back to the barn, I think somehow they wont discover Halloran's body. Maybe Logan burns down the barn so they wont be able to identify Halloran's corpse, he could blame the fire on Halloran trying to dispose of evidence. Not sure myself how the confession recording will help Logan out. It's very specific, so thankfully I'm confident this isn't something they put in the movie without thought just to rush a hack explanation in the sequel. Sure they already had the recording's use planned out from the beginning. Maybe Logan's story will be something like he managed to get the upperhand in a fight and Halloran started confessing at gunpoint.
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Re: Amanda and Hoffman know about Logan!

Postby Saw Warrior » August 17th, 2018, 2:37 pm

Jigsaw_Expert wrote:
Saw Warrior wrote:I'm also curious about why did Logan record Halloran's confession about his crimes...

I mean, what's the point of that, now that Halloran is dead?

Despite the fact Eleanor will be bringing the authorities back to the barn, I think somehow they wont discover Halloran's body. Maybe Logan burns down the barn so they wont be able to identify Halloran's corpse, he could blame the fire on Halloran trying to dispose of evidence. Not sure myself how the confession recording will help Logan out. It's very specific, so thankfully I'm confident this isn't something they put in the movie without thought just to rush a hack explanation in the sequel. Sure they already had the recording's use planned out from the beginning. Maybe Logan's story will be something like he managed to get the upperhand in a fight and Halloran started confessing at gunpoint.




That makes sense. I think it depends on who was in the car that Eleanor noticed by the end of the movie.

Maybe she disappears and Logan will be after her, because she'll be his alibi like he said. Then again, they'll have to explain why did they go alone to the barn instead of calling he cops.
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