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The New Jigsaw character

Sequel or Prequel?

The New Jigsaw character

Postby Sinwhale » November 15th, 2017, 5:05 pm

My viewing of the new movie was a bit delayed and now I 'm happy I am able to read the forums once again.

I understand the general unhappiness with the movie here and I agree at some points made but I gotta say that as a completely detached movie from the SAW timeline it was an amazing thriller and if the general idea is to restart the franchise then it was a solid attempt .

Now, the thing that I wanna talk about is that from my interpretation of the ending the New Jigsaw, Logan Nelson, seems to be something completely different than John Kramer. He's a murderer and there's no denying that even from his side (Think about just the sniper shooting moment). It's not about changing the lives of 'bad" people. It's about punishing those who hurt others. His lines at the end "I speak for the lives of people ruined by you. Murderers, rapists etc" and his denying of giving Halloran a choice "Scream or don't" solidifes that. The difference with John's aprentices here (who also didn't give people a chance, specifically Amanda) is that there was sadism involved before removing their victim's life and sometimes victim's reason for being there was kinda on the fence of being justified. As for Hoffman, supposedly everything he was doing after Johns death was to cover himself and his actions so there was never a motive of the Jigsaw mantra behind his games.

I imagine Logan as a Batman or better a Punisher version of Jigsaw, who no longer stands behind the crazy world of John Kramer but uses his techniques to act as a vigilante with a clearer and more logical scope than teaching lessons to people by putting them in fatal situations. Killing those who have severely hurt others.

In that light, I feel I can appreciate his character more and give the benefit of the doubt to the creators to show us why he's a strong character to carry the story from now on.
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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby Logan_Nelson » November 16th, 2017, 1:39 am

Very fair
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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby Vinc360 » November 16th, 2017, 2:15 am

I definitely don't disagree with you, generally speaking. I do think the movie was a solid effort, and far better than Saw 7 for my tastes. I like a lot about it, and think the first two acts are near-perfect, especially when it comes to the events that occur in the past. I found that aspect fascinating, and while I wasn't a huge fan of some of the execution of the timeline twist, I absolutely love the idea, and a few tweaks would've really taken this movie to new heights. I'll post about that shortly in its own thread.
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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby kramersson » November 16th, 2017, 4:25 am

if logan is a true vigilante, the next movie needs to set it up that way flawlessly and not let any loopholes slip through so that his character can be a strong one going forward. they need to explain in detail that each life he has taken was for the purpose of cleaning up society and serving justice. this needs to be consistent throughout the next few movies to give his character credibility. or else he will just turn into another hoffman trying to cover up his tracks and doing the wrong actions.
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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby Faerie Tanith » November 16th, 2017, 8:36 pm

I just don't understand how, in theory, Logan was an apprentice during the same time period Hoffman and Amanda were alive. And yet nobody else knew about him? They already did that with Lawrence, so it feels a bit forced. I mean how many secret doctor apprentices did John have stashed up his sleeve?
So far I have met:: Costas Mandylor, Tobin Bell, Julie Benz, J. LaRose, Darren Lynn Bousman, Michael Emerson, Danny Glover

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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby manyofhorror » November 16th, 2017, 8:50 pm

Faerie Tanith wrote:I just don't understand how, in theory, Logan was an apprentice during the same time period Hoffman and Amanda were alive. And yet nobody else knew about him? They already did that with Lawrence, so it feels a bit forced. I mean how many secret doctor apprentices did John have stashed up his sleeve?

The next twist is John hired everyone in Lynns hospital to help him out, just wait.
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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby Faerie Tanith » November 16th, 2017, 9:04 pm

manyofhorror wrote:
Faerie Tanith wrote:I just don't understand how, in theory, Logan was an apprentice during the same time period Hoffman and Amanda were alive. And yet nobody else knew about him? They already did that with Lawrence, so it feels a bit forced. I mean how many secret doctor apprentices did John have stashed up his sleeve?

The next twist is John hired everyone in Lynns hospital to help him out, just wait.


If it means we get to see nurse Deborah again, I'm down.
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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby Sinwhale » November 16th, 2017, 9:08 pm

Faerie Tanith wrote:I just don't understand how, in theory, Logan was an apprentice during the same time period Hoffman and Amanda were alive. And yet nobody else knew about him? They already did that with Lawrence, so it feels a bit forced. I mean how many secret doctor apprentices did John have stashed up his sleeve?


Generally the idea that there was another apprentice, and then another , and then another cheapens the whole plot but I don't agree with the point that we shouldn't like or accept Logan just because we don't have the answers to the questions yet. Obviously the idea that Logan existed from the start doesn't make much sense based on the previous 7 movies because there is nothing that connects him with them, other than the fact that he is connected. The whole picture is missing. I think we should wait for the answers and then if it still feels ridiculous let's downvote them to hell.
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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby LitmusG1 » November 17th, 2017, 12:29 am

What if Logan was only an apprentice for a very short time, and got kicked out for some reason before the others? Would that solve a few things? Returning only years after Amanda and Hoffman are out of the picture, as more of a copycat than an apprentice now.

If Hoffman was to return in the next one it could be a battle between the two of them to keep the crown, and maybe whoever wins also learns to preserve the true jigsaw message rather than continuing to be murderers.
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Re: The New Jigsaw character

Postby Logan_Nelson » November 17th, 2017, 3:44 pm

Sinwhale wrote:
Faerie Tanith wrote:I just don't understand how, in theory, Logan was an apprentice during the same time period Hoffman and Amanda were alive. And yet nobody else knew about him? They already did that with Lawrence, so it feels a bit forced. I mean how many secret doctor apprentices did John have stashed up his sleeve?


Generally the idea that there was another apprentice, and then another , and then another cheapens the whole plot but I don't agree with the point that we shouldn't like or accept Logan just because we don't have the answers to the questions yet. Obviously the idea that Logan existed from the start doesn't make much sense based on the previous 7 movies because there is nothing that connects him with them, other than the fact that he is connected. The whole picture is missing. I think we should wait for the answers and then if it still feels ridiculous let's downvote them to hell.


Totally agree. I wanted the apprentice stuff to stop at Saw VII but right now Amanda and Hoffman knowing about Logan and vice versa is ridiculous. They can still save the plot with a well written explanation but if they don't then yes it will largely discredit the intellect that the first movies worked hard to establish.
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