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"It can never be personal"...

Sequel or Prequel?

"It can never be personal"...

Postby Faerie Tanith » November 17th, 2017, 1:08 am

...Are you kidding me John?

I know that whole area got very muddy in the previous films- which always annoyed me anyway. John tells Hoffman that the games can never be personal, yet people like William Easton, Lawrence Gordon and more were very personally linked to John and were easily targeted because of it.

And now that continues? I felt like suddenly giving John a dead nephew out of nowhere was somewhat unnecessary, like it was only done to give Mitch a connection to John, which honestly wasn't needed. That scene would have had just as much impact if the motorbike accident had involved a perfect stranger.

It just felt unnecessary, and a bit of a middle finger to what John said in Saw V.
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby Vinc360 » November 17th, 2017, 1:17 am

No, it's actually an explanation. All of them at the barn were deliberately picked for a personal reason, and John tweaked his M.O. to make it not personal. He says so to Logan after he fucks up his sedation: "We can never come from anger or vengence, you taught me that."

Logan clearly disagrees and I assume he will be taken down later, like Hoffman was. None of Jigsaw's apprentices respect that part of his M.O.

Amanda helped John due to replacing her drug and selfharm addictions with killing.

Hoffman became a vigilante out of cynicism for the justice system he worked for.

Logan seemingly has reasons very similar to Hoffman.

Gordon makes no sense whatsoever. Stockholm syndrome I guess. Ugh.

John was so good in the first trilogy.
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby kramersson » November 17th, 2017, 4:52 am

this was raised after Saw VI was released - John made it personal by being on the TV screens himself rather than using Billy and he had a direct relationship with William. so that in itself already went against what John said in Saw V even if what Vinc360 mentioned above held true and that he changed his M.O. after the barn game.
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby Logan_Nelson » November 17th, 2017, 3:19 pm

John didn't come from a place of anger or vengeance, maybe a little vengeance but saying it could never be personal is a phrase I think people misinterpret.

To me, he isn't saying the person you're testing can never be connected to you. He's saying you can't just test the person because you perceive their actions as personally wrong. Their actions have to have a negative weight, a certain gravity to them that warrants a test, but you shouldn't be going "hope you die you PoS" during the test.

John wasn't afraid to let people die if they failed their tests. Halloran failed his test and Jigsaw would have let him rot there. Logan decided he would exacerbate the situation by accelerating Halloran's death. What solidifies Logan as a murderer isn't Hlloran's death, it's Edgar Munsen's. Logan kidnapped him, put him in a trap, shot him even though he followed the rules, then woke him up from his medically induced coma...by poisoning him, then put him in a casket to throw the police off. Edgar was a piece of shit but Logan has already gone full Hoffman, so it is definitely personal and I have no Idea what they plan to do about Logan. I assume he will be taken down by the "altruistic" Jigsaw Cult similar to Hoffman, but in a more elaborate and explained way.
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby kramersson » November 17th, 2017, 4:00 pm

ya i guess you make a fair point
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby ToBENbell » November 20th, 2017, 10:56 pm

I always thought he meant you can't put them in a trap for the reason they wronged you but you can if that person has done something wrong to affect others as well as you that way it isn't only personal. For example in the ending of Jigsaw Holaran didn't just hurt Logan he was responsible for many murders really
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby IKnowWhoYouAre » November 21st, 2017, 3:04 am

It was also just down to luck that Tapp didn't bleed to death when John slashed his throat. As much as we love Jigsaw and his philosophy it's important to remember he's also a psychopath.
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby kramersson » November 21st, 2017, 3:37 am

IKnowWhoYouAre wrote:It was also just down to luck that Tapp didn't bleed to death when John slashed his throat. As much as we love Jigsaw and his philosophy it's important to remember he's also a psychopath.


that scene is flawed in so many ways. he's brains not brawn. he never should've acted physical in that scene and should've used his mind to manipulate sing and tapp and get away with it, in jigsaw style. that is one scene that i really hated throughout the whole franchise.

and that shotgun scene with sing is also ridiculous. he should've warned sing not to proceed like he normally would and if he did THEN sing would run into the shotguns. but not knowing the shotguns were rigged with hair trigger is so not fair to him. sing did not deserve to die just because he was a good cop (there is no evidence to prove otherwise).
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby Faerie Tanith » November 21st, 2017, 12:36 pm

John slashing Tapp's neck will never sit right with me for this exact reason.
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Re: "It can never be personal"...

Postby ColeSmith777 » November 22nd, 2017, 4:35 am

Yeah, Vinc360 is right. This movie shows how the “it can never be personal” rule came into play. This is one of my favourite parts of the movie, actually. I’m not a fan of when movies go and retcon things that happened in previous films, but this was nice. A little insight to something that we saw in the original series, which also strengthens the idea.

- also, John may have been personally conflicted by William Easton, but that does not mean William’s whole test in Saw VI was personal. As the film states many times, William and his company are predators who scam people’s money by assuring their health (and then proceed to deny health coverage). It might have been personal at first but William is probably the most deserving out of anyone in the entire series to be tested.
These politicians, they say the same thing over and over and over again; "Healthcare decisions should be made by doctors and their patients, not by the government." Well, now I know they're not made by doctors and their patients or by the government. They're made by the insurance companies.
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