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The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Sequel or Prequel?

Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Vinc360 » November 24th, 2018, 10:38 pm

Twisted wouldn't mind getting some of the old crew back, but Lionsgate wants new people, and fresh takes on the franchise to eventually finally get away from the reliance on what made the original series. Twisted is more interested in story / narrative ideas especially revolving around having what they perceive as clever twists. Lionsgate is more interested in fresh concepts that will modernize the series. That's the agreement they must reach, they need to find a solution that'll please everybody. Twisted wants to keep working with Lionsgate, their relationship isn't tense or anything. Both parties realize Jigsaw came off as too safe, and both parties agree that the Logan character was a big mistake. They will put a ton of emphasis on having a strong foundation to make the franchise relevant again, so likely another main character, but they want Tobin back for as long as they can, but they do want a passing of the baton there.

Here's the situation:

- Lionsgate wants a new take on the series, and a new director as a key part of that. Twisted is fine with it as long as they can get one they perceive as good and at least somewhat established.

- The Spierigs felt Twisted and Lionsgate didn't give them enough creative freedom on JIgsaw, and won't come back. It's a narrative that is growing around the franchise, but its popularity still makes it attractive. Many horror directors would be happy to come in and make a good Saw.

- They won't get a good director until they have a good script.

- Making a good script takes a strong idea everyone agrees on, and time to develop it correctly. There is more scrutiny around the quality of the script than ever. For Jigsaw, they started with the concept of a recreated Jigsaw trap, and didn't spend enough time developing the script around the idea.

- They seemingly just agreed on what they feel is a strong idea. It will take a while to develop it.

- I don't know that it's safe to expect a movie next year anymore.

- Tobin isn't getting any younger.

- Costas Mandylor and Cary Elwes both genuinely want to come back and are pushing for it, but neither Twisted or Lionsgate think it's a good idea.

- At this rate, I expect the next one to essentially be a reboot, with no regard for previous continuity, and with Tobin at the center of it. From everything I know, that's what I expect. And I don't think we'll see it until 2020, at this point. 2019 is still possible, but the script is being developed, and given the timeframe in which they agreed on a core idea for it, I expect it to take longer. In any case, the producers usually get together just after Christmas when a Saw movie is in the works. I expect they will this year, and we should hear more after that. If they're still aiming for 2019, we'll hear about it in January or February. If they're aiming for 2020, we won't hear anything about it at all until SDCC 2019 at the earliest, and I'm only talking about acknowledgement that it's in the works here. We'll have to wait til SDCC 2020 to even see a trailer for it, and that's if there are no further delays.

In other words, it might be a while.
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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Saw Warrior » November 25th, 2018, 12:38 am

That was a great and detailed post, Vinc. Thanks for the imput.

At least, we know a sequel will happen. I agree that Hoffman and Gordon must not return to the series. As much as I loved Hoffman's character ( perhaps he's the second best after Jigsaw ), his story is done. He met his fate and got locked in the bathroom.

Gordon also did what Jigsaw told him to do. It was something like a last wish in Saw 3D. Gordon was never meant to keep the games going on.

Regarding Logan, I enjoyed his character but I agree he lacks Hoffman's charisma and John's intelligence. However, the previous movie left a huge cliffhanger ( Logan is out there and cops don't know that. ) and we still have Eleanor.

I think they need to give a closure to the next movie and then they can come with something entirely new if they want. Hopefully we'll get another one next year.
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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Jigsaw_Expert » November 25th, 2018, 1:58 am

Although (if I remember correctly) Lionsgate have had their fair share of forcing terrible decisions on the original series, from what Vinc is posting they seem to have good intentions this time round, find myself agreeing with Lionsgate's requests. Hope they really nail it this time around, do think it would be best if they waited for a 2020 release even. I do question the ability of general audience's to digest another Saw movie with new canon so soon after a soft reboot, especially since the reception was "it was just another Saw movie", so audience fatigue is a danger. Whatever new direction they come up with they'd have to hammer it hard into the marketing. It cant be a new direction that's kept secret and only revealed at the very end by a twist that promises further sequels will deal with the new direction, the story of the new movie has to be the new direction.

I also don't think it's honestly hard to replace Tobin Bell. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree, but I think a lot of people value how exotic Tobin Bell looks and sounds over the actual character of Kramer. Costas Mandylor and Matt Passmore are attractive dudes but they do look conventionally attractive, not a bad thing for them (wish I was), but I think it's a contributing reason why general audiences don't even remember who Hoffman is, even if they did sit through IV - VII. Ofcourse it doesn't help the Hoffman character never evolved and "being just another apprentice" is a big limiting factor in itself, but as shallow as it is, having a unique face is important for a role like this IMO. E.g, I think Mads Mikkelsen could easily live up to such a role, his accent would sound badass coming through the Jigsaw tapes and at the very least would match Bell's voice if not surpass it. Not that an actor of his caliber would agree to be in a Saw movie, but point being you could find an actor out there which meets the shallow request of the general audience and subconscious desire of all. Then the other ingredient would be good writing and whatever they end up going with, hopefully they've agreed to never use the word "apprentice" ever again.

Or maybe they don't have a singular villain in mind and will go with that "cult" idea they've been close to pulling the trigger on many times. I cant imagine creating an interesting villain or villains with that concept, I don't understand how you could home in on one or multiple characters of the cult to make them interesting, whatever character(s) you try to focus on with the cult side, their presence is inherently diluted because they would just be one of many. Or commitment to such an angle would be a conscious attempt to stop making Saw about the villains but instead entirely about the victims. The cult idea is inherently silly and schlocky, maybe it could be done well but they'd be constantly treading on egg shells at risk of the series becoming a parody again like VII.
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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Vinc360 » November 25th, 2018, 3:46 am

Honestly, I think a mistake they're making (and have been making since Saw 3D), is that they don't give enough creative input to their directors. They should bring the director in while the script is still being written, which is what they used to do. It's how every installment of the series worked up until Saw VI, with Saw 3D being the first in the series that had no creative input from its eventual director until the script was locked in. The Spierigs had the same criticism, which was exacerbated with the work-for-hire nature of their directing experience.

Lionsgate wants new ideas, and Twisted agrees to a point, but don't give meaningful freedom for creative teams to bring something to the table. I personally think the series needs to take a big risk. Jigsaw proved the series still has huge potential and pull, but it's handicapped by quality issues at the moment. Jigsaw was not bad at all, but it was held back. I think a lot of people, even those involved making these movies, agree with this. And I think the producers love the franchise and want the best for it, but it really is time to let fresh ideas breathe new life into the series.
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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Vinc360 » November 25th, 2018, 3:58 am

Whatever happens, we'll eventually get more Saw, and I think they took the right lessons from Jigsaw, which is encouraging.
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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby ToBENbell » November 28th, 2018, 3:10 pm

I actually really enjoyed Jigsaw! I think it’s a shame LIONSGATE don’t want to continue with the new characters... in the jigsaw documentary staff members said they hope to explore more with the newbies and continue on the new puzzle. We had 7 awesome movies that showed us the original story and we have them to treasure forever. Then came Jigsaw it was a breath of fresh air and I loved the new characters Hallaron and Ellenor were awesome! If they do want to freshen things up then I’m kind of sad about it to be honest :cry:
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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Faerie Tanith » November 28th, 2018, 4:10 pm

It really doesn't need freshening up. I don't see the point in redoing the same thing over and over again with brand new characters. That's why Final Destination got tiring after five installments.
So far I have met:: Costas Mandylor, Tobin Bell, Julie Benz, J. LaRose, Darren Lynn Bousman, Michael Emerson, Danny Glover

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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Vinc360 » November 28th, 2018, 9:20 pm

But redoing the same thing over and over is the opposite of freshening up!

And yeah I liled Jigsaw too, but there's always lessons to learn from anything. I'm glad it seems to be lessons like "our main villain needs to be more compelling" instead of something wrongheaded like "We need to add a laugh track!!!"
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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Albert-Wesker » November 29th, 2018, 2:05 am

What else is there to be done that would not change too much?

Anyway, I think Jigsaw wasn't that great and if they do not continue from it, it was a huge mistake.

Honestly, if Cary Elwes wants to return, have him return. Saw 7 let it somewhat open whether Gordeon would continue the games or not, so why not have him as the new Jigsaw. I think he was really cool in 7 and the only really good thing about that movie anyway.

So, I'm open for a Kramer Solo movie as long as it does not reset any continuity.
I think the Saw series was so interesting because the movies were so tightly connected and told a bigger story.

I'd like them to start a new story but also somewhat continue from there with a proper Saw 8 with Gordon taking over the legacy. They can develop him more, how he struggled with everything, how he had moral problems, was questioning himself etc. I think he could be an interesting main villain and be different from John, Amanda and Hoffman. They need a new killer anyway.

So, while I want a continuation with Gordon, I don't think that Saw 8 should have tons of flashbacks or anything.
It should be like a fresh start, just set after Saw 7 with the rest of the continuity still there and Jigsaw being ignores non canon.

And I would like it to be more of a psychothriller again. Now too many traps, nothing too over the top. Tell a dark story, make it similiar to the 1st movie and Seven. Write a good story, make it emotional and sad, have a dark and moody atmosphere, make it hopeless, creepy and cruel. Really, just make a really dark psychotrhiller / horrorthriller. Maybe make a trilogy in that style and than have it end at Saw 10.

And if they do not go with Gordon, I want a completely new killer. A copycat with his/her own motivation and style. Everything else I said is still valid for that.

I really want Gordon or someone completely new. Logan, while a cool character itself, was one the biggest mistakes in my opinion. Now more apprentices we did not know of. And I don't want the clean look and lighter tone from Jigsaw.
And I think Hoffman should stay dead. He was cool, but if anything he should be in a short flashback. I like Mandylor, but he is not really needed.
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Re: The sequel mighr be on ice indefinitely

Postby Vinc360 » November 29th, 2018, 2:51 am

I wouldn't be shocked if the next one includes some characters from Jigsaw, but if Logan is included, I fully expect he'll be used in a different capacity than Jigsaw 1 suggested. And John Kramer will be the antagonist again, for better or worse.

Oh and some news! I think I may have already mentioned this as a guess, but they're having high-level meetings again, and expect to reconvene after the holidays. I think next year is actually happening, after all. Hard to say though, I don't have much more insight than that...

But the script still isn't done. No idea how far along it is, but they'll need to hurry if they want to release next year. Production would need to be around March / April at the latest, and by then they have to finish the script, then hire a director, then begin hiring a crew, do locations scouting, etc

And they liked the Jigsaw experience of having more time for writing, production, and post-production, so 2020 maybe? Who knows. 2019 seems possible to me, and them scheduling these meetings feels like they're gearing up for something.
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